electricalforum.nz

AlecK

Q&D = quick & dirty

Most domestic ovens are no more than 2300 W (10 A FLC), so 10 A plug & socket.
But yes, if bigger, apply a different load group.

main point was by moving to correct column, you get different values pr even a whole different calculation for contribution of some load groups.

AlecK

Agree there appears to be conflict between what's included & excluded. Suggest you submit a "public comment " Based on 1.1.2 "inclusions", there's obviously an intent that the specific parts of other installations (ie non-caravan-parks) that are intended for supply to TSs should comply to this Stand...

AlecK

The Q&D way would be to adopt max-demand-by-limitation. But you still need to be confident that that the actual loads will never be enough to cause excessive volt drop; let alone take out the supply fuse ------------ Using calculation (Table C1) you need to move from column 2 to column 3 (2 living u...

AlecK

I read it that yes, we can adopt such practice.
In the usual basis that anything that's not prohibited must be permitted.

AlecK

That was certainly not the intent The intent, unchanged from current edition, is that ANY provision of supply from "an "electrical installation" to any transportable structure should comply with the relevant provisions of "3001". For a caravan park, the specific requirements may be different from a ...

AlecK

Both Marsh & Crombie-lockwood have PL packages specifically for electricians, with a bit of prof indemnity thrown in to cover advice we may offer our clients. As for how much cover; like any insurance it depends on your appetite for risk. For PL, what's the value of the biggest asset you'll work on?...

AlecK

The point of the Note after 3.11.2 is that the situations listed are deemed not to be "underground"; therefore the rules for u/g cabling [3.11] do not apply. And since item (i) doesn't specify indoor / outdoor (or any other limitation); ALL cabling embedded in a concrete "floor, slab or pad" is not ...

AlecK

8.3.6.1 says you should have done this test (or at least ensured that it was done). Basically issuing a CoC says that all required testing has been carried out. And you'd need to do it at a stage where any external influences (eg meters) didn't upset the reading. As replacement of fitting (mains cab...

AlecK

Good question. I would take "mechanically protected" to mean to the degree required for the cable type & installation conditions; so for a Cat A u/g wiring no additional protection needed. The point of the requirement is that other people may need to dig up those other u/g services, and need to be a...

AlecK

You are correct that a meter is just another fitting; and is part of the installation Officially metering has zero to do with determining whether the particular set-up constitutes one installation or several. An installation has a PoS. The default location for the PoS is set by the location of the f...

AlecK

Metering is another area where the old ESAs made up their own rules. Mostly was treated as a sort of add-on to the installation; associated with it but not actually part of it. These days it's definitely part of the installation, and so must comply with Wiring Rules. (Not that '3000" sets any specif...

AlecK

What wasn't allowed was using an un-sleeved green as an active;
yet there are still plenty of instances of that to be found.

AlecK

Not trying to make work for you; was just wondering what the time limit was. I admit to taking time over some posts, but never as long as 2 hours Difficult to define how long it takes, but appears to vary. Sometimes i get one post in, and shortly after the next one gets lost; so I'm assuming the tim...

AlecK

1C +N/S is not a "single-core" cable; it's a form of multi-conductor cable.
Refer also clause 3.3.5 of "3008.1.2; which says how N/S is to be treated for establishing CCC.

And the screen is not a "metal sheathing". 3.9.10.3 covers things like MIMS cable.

AlecK

Short answer is 1/4/2010. Tracing the history of rules can be tricky. As Doug 's reply suggests, often there never was a rule that said "you may do it"; just absence of a rule saying "you must not do it" . Some practices are required, some are permitted, and some are prohibited. Chances are good tha...

AlecK

Those configurations were permitted, and I believe common, under earlier regulatory regimes. From a purely engineering viewpoint; electrically sound. But from a safe work viewpoint, not so good. Remember compliance with all of "3000" has only been mandatory since 2010; before that only some clauses ...

AlecK

The Draft revisions of the following Standards are now open for public comment 1 Closing 19 June: AS/NZS 3002 : 202x Installations: Shows & Carnivals 2 Closing 20 July: AS/NZS 3001.1: 202x Installations: Transportable structures & supply arrangements; Part 1 Supply arrangements AS/NZS 3001.2: 202x I...

AlecK

I use a pair of floor-signs similar to Jamie's.

AlecK

I agree with Sarmajor's list of "general" PEW; except for replacing SERFs with MCBs. That's still replacement of a fitting, both old & new fittings being overcurrent protection devices. As long as the rating is suitable for the circuit (including for any BTI that's been added & may have reduced the ...

AlecK

true 3.9.8.2 doesn't directly address sharing conductors-in-common; it's about sharing a common wiring system between installations. What prevents using common mains is simply the definitions referred to by Sarmajor. Every installation starts at it's own PoS (another definition in the Act) . That's ...

AlecK

Whenever you're intending 3-phase supply spread across multiple cables, you should take steps to minimise the possible adverse effects of the overall electromagnetic fields. The higher the current; the more important this is.

AlecK

I don't believe any such rule exists. What DOES exist is a rule that separate installations can't share mains [ 3.9.8.2 of "3000"]. Everything fed off the point of supply (PoS) for an installation has to be for that installation only. Presumably in this case the PoS is at the street. And since every...

AlecK

Exactly. ESR 6A (1) says all maintenance / replacement of existing installations is classified as low risk PEW - the ONLY exception is item (1)(c) - Nothing anywhere else changes that fundamental rule Doesn't have to be "like-for-like". Those words do not appear anywhere in ESRs (nor in any Regs for...

AlecK

yes both should have been "BTI", as in bulk thermal insulation
(not BTU as in British thermal units)

AlecK

to get an understanding of the similarities 7 differences, read Sections 74 - 81 of the Electricity Act (available www.legislation.govt.nz) S 74 sets up a default requirement for authorisation to do PEW; and the following few Sections make exemptions; each exemption coming complete with specific lim...

AlecK

Yes, not all switching devices are isolation devices. Similarly not all devices for isolation are switches. I's unfortunate that many of the references in Standards to "isolating switch" add the word 'lockable". it's intended to reinforce the message; but what it actually does is make people believe...

AlecK

The "part installation" is whatever you describe on your CoC and / or ESC. Generally that's limited to the bit you've worked on; the fitting(s) you replaced and/or the new fitting(s) you added. So be careful how you fill in your CoC! ESR 59(3) applies only to maintenance (including replacement); ie ...

AlecK

Q1 which certificate to use A CoC is intended to be used only when PEW has been carried out. Must be issued for general & high risk PEW, may be issued voluntarily for low risk PEW. One problem with issuing a CoC for existing installations is that the form only applies to the "work: described, and th...

AlecK

Not directly related; but... The standard for 'light timber-framed construction" , NZS 3604, is now available free via SNZ, there's also a link on the building.govt website for that plus a bunch of other building-related standards. Well worth downloading it, as it has direct effects on many aspects ...

AlecK

Chances of being able to obtain a matching fittings when one out of a set fails are slim; even if the originals are from a reputable brand rather than via the retail lighting chains. I believe the days of installing domestic lighting for "life of building" are over. People want to change their decor...

AlecK

If the lining of a grey cement-board type, then it's likely to be ACM - "Polite" or equivalent. There's also a much softer type that's common, with grey fibrous structure; easily penetrated by screwdrivers etc That's "millboard" or equivalent, and 100 % asbestos. You'll find similar stuff used to in...

AlecK

There are 2 issues here; complicated due to the way the subclauses within 2.6.3 have changed over time. and also due to failure to take note of the words in the intro to each part. First issue is that which clause applies depends in what you are doing. Both 2.6.3.1 and 2.6.3.2 ONLY make rules for RC...

AlecK

Check Building Act; Schedule 1 for building work that's exempt from needing consent. Energy (ie gas & electrical) work has a general exemption; but that doesn't let us just cut apertures in structures. From memory apertures up to 250 mm diameter just need to follow Building Code; larger = restricted...

AlecK

Short answer is "yes". In both ESRs & Wiring Rules, an electrical installation is defined in terms that do not tie it to a particular structure. One structure can include several installations; and one installation can be spread across several structures. In the case of your 2 x 160 A supplies, I wo...

AlecK

when you look closely there are a number of areas where ESRs don't fully line up internally. Sometimes it's just that the writer(s) haven't used the right words to fully & accurately give effect to the intent. I believe the incorrect older definition of "main earthing system" was one of those. Alway...

AlecK

The logic simply goes like this: ESR 4; "mains work; (a)(ii) says work on any "MES" is "mains work". ESR 6A(2) (b) says installation / alteration PEW that is mains work is high risk. The fact that ESR 5; mains work, (a)(iii) only talks about the N-E connection in the MEN switchboard closest to suppl...

AlecK

I would suggest that the training module was based on an American original. My understanding is that the two terms are not directly interchangeable, as not all GFCIs operate on the residual current principle. Regardless, always best to stick with the official terms; in this case RCD. Use of GFCI wou...

AlecK

Yes the earthing systems for some outbuildings include all three components that make ip a 'main earthing system"; and therefore these are also "main earthing systems". Accordingly (installation) work on these MESs is classified as high risk PEW and requires inspection. I believe the minor anomaly y...

AlecK

When dealing with a descriptive phrase such as "permanently connected" you have to focus on what's included and forget about other factors. If other factors are relevant, they'll be stated separately. In this case the permanence (or otherwise) relates only to the form of connection: permanently conn...

AlecK

How is the logged-in timeout function set?
Sometimes I get bumped-out after only a few minutes since last posting (just like the old forum, but worse)
Other times i can prepare a fairly long post, and still manage to post it without having to log in again (which if not saved means re-writing it all).

AlecK

Neither of these clauses applies outside the relevant areas. The while of 6.2 relates only to the areas described in 6.2.1; and similarly the whole of 6.3 applies onlu in the areas described in 6.3.1. You can't legitimately apply any of these clauses universally, eg to all outdoor areas. While we al...

AlecK

Brady & other signage suppliers had them available; probably still do.
But at nearly $20 apiece, hardly surprising that there weren't many sales.
And wholesalers don't tend to carry slow-moving stock.

AlecK

Yes; the fact that this clause of cited edition specifies classes of luminaire compliant to a specific edition of the product Standard makes use of any the different classes set by the later edition of 60958.2.2. technically non-compliant with ESRs. Unless they are dual-tested & dual-marked, as many...

AlecK

WRT item 4: While they are a good idea; there's no requirement for a MEC label at switchboard. And, unlike Ns, Es don't require separate terminal for each. That said, I don't like the idea of MEC & MEN sharing same terminal; 'cos either one should be able to be disconnected for testing without affec...

AlecK

The wording calls for "terminals" to be marked / arranged; so technically a conductor ID wouldn't comply with the letter of the rule.
But in practice I believe conductor ID that achieves the stated function would comply with the spirit of it.

AlecK

Agree that seems silly, as well as the labelling being non-compliant.

Another place where switches are often wrongly labelled as "main switches" is the isolators for incoming submains to DB - which mostly are not "main switches and in fact are often not required at all.

AlecK

MEN connection is at ends of both N-bar & E-bar, so Exception 1 applies I assume 'A' is N of incoming supply; and if so then - being in terminal next to MEN - Exception 2 applies. "B" is outgoing N to "RCD 1, so must be either labelled or identified by the arrangement. "C" is incoming N to RCD 1; an...

AlecK

Doug's correct that the headings help understanding. 3.9.4.2 "near building surfaces" relates to (a) "concealed" wiring within 50 mm of the finished wall / ceiling / floor surface (ie outer surface); and imposes the 50 mm depth rule. If no lining, then not concealed, so doesn't apply. Also limited t...

AlecK

Clearly you're putting your lock-down down-time to good use. well done. ----------- Yes the required separation distance is 100 mm, but NOT from Fig 4.7. Being in NZ, you should be using 4.5.2.3.4 &Fig 4.9 Remembering that these (both Figs) are default clearances that apply where MIs are silent And ...

AlecK

Apart from the price; it was a condition of sale that Ron P have a years continued use of the seminar booking page. ME buying the old forum provided continuity, at was - for them - a fairly small cost. And they resisted the move to restrict access to members only; keeping it open . That's very uncom...

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