electricalforum.nz

AlecK

What it takes to "satisfy" any Inspector is up to that Inspector. Personally I'd expect a minimum of photographic evidence from anyone i didn't already have a high level of trust in. When you issue an RoI that says "it complies, and will be safe when enlivened"; you're formally accepting responsibil...

AlecK

the adapter cords you describe are electrically unsafe; because they can have 15 A pf load applied when the plug is only rated 10 A.. Would be OK if they had an in-line mcb to limit the current. Which takes care of the issues arising from carrying the welder (or whatever) around a variety of custome...

AlecK

I agree.
My previous comment wasn't intended to cover leases / rentals

AlecK

"timing is everything"

AlecK

technically this only works uf the CI is never unplugged.
Though how the powers-that-be would ever know about that ....?

AlecK

Spakznz is correct.
The requirement for WoEF applies only when it is proposed to connect to supply.
The obligation is on the person allowing connection,not on the CI owner.

AlecK

3017 has been published; and can be purchased
But not yet available via EWRB

AlecK

most brands of rail-mount terminals will have similar.
Finding something to fit a standard "strip" of non-rail connectors will be trial & error.

AlecK

new 2022 edition of "3001" was published mid Nov. So far only Part 1 is showing on SNZ website via EWRB link, but both parts are there of you go directly to SNZ. This will be a glitch in the deal between EWRB & SNZ There are a few changes to part 1 (site supplies); and a lot of changes to part 2 (co...

AlecK

you have plenty of choice about how you determine MD [2.2.2]. Whatever you decide it us; you then select cable size to carry it; and you protect that cable against overcurrent. Which is essentially determining MD by "limitation". Therefore MD is not an (electrical) safety consideration; so the point...

AlecK

Yes. AS/NZS 5139 says BESS shall not be located in habitable rooms of domestic / residential installations. 4.2.2.2 for pre-assembled BESS 6.2.2.2 for other BESS Not just a recommendation; but "shall not". This is the only installation Standard that covers lithium batteries. Compliance is required b...

AlecK

There is no reason an RoI cant relate to work done on more than one CoC,
provided all the (high risk) work relates to installation at same location

AlecK

Depends in the basis of the claim of the duct being "HD". I'm no expert on details of the manufacturing standards that apply; but I see no reason a duct (ie > 75 mm) could not be manufactured to comply with a conduit Standard. In which case I'm sure that fact would be clearly marked on it - as eithe...

AlecK

Good thought, and I probably should have thought more about the fact that you're planning to use a socket. If someone does plug another Class I appliance into this socket, there will be greater risk of different earth potentials. Not just earthed items within arm's reach of the pump, but earthed ite...

AlecK

Correct that there is a risk of touch voltages. Most obviously an earth fault in the pump motor will result in high current flowing in the PEC of the pump circuit. The pump motor will therefore have a voltage higher than the MEN point of the house, due to impedance in the PEC. The value could be sig...

AlecK

Duct is a term defined in "3000" [1.4.42]. Basically something intended to have cables drawn in. Conduit is a form of wiring enclosure, and is generally part of a "wiring system" refer 3.2 & Table 3.1. The terms are not synonyms; but also not exclusive. Conduits less than 75 mm cannot be ducts (by d...

AlecK

Hard to understand how wiring within a switchboard could be regarded as anything other than a "wiring system". The term "wiring systems" is defined in 2018 edition. For purposes of 2007 edition; the meaning has to be interpreted . Partly from the way the term is used in Section 3; particularly the f...

AlecK

yes it needs to follow the same rules. Or rather, we need to follow the same rules in "3000" WRT fibre as WRT other telecomms wiring. So 3.9.9.8.4 for spacing still requires us to follow TCF rules (which may have different, requirements WRT fibre than eg UTP / STP) 3.9.8.3 is unlikely to apply, as t...

AlecK

the requirements of 3.9.8.4 are about interference. 3.9.8.3 is about voltage / insulation. Both are in Section 3, so apply to "wiring systems". wiring within an equipment enclosure, eg swbd / control panel, is also "wiring systems". so these rules still apply; however the details of how they apply w...

AlecK

I (carefully) didn't say "having the MEN open is key"; I said having the N-E loop open is key. Which may be by opening the MEN, or by disconnecting the circuit N (but generally should not be achieved by disconnecting any PECs). Unless we take this step, we can't eliminate possibility of N-E reversal...

AlecK

very good question. There's certainly no definitive ruling to be found in the ESRs. The answer is up to each of us; we need to be prepared to justify our decisions - and may find that others disagree. "Original condition" is a matter of interpretation; but it's certainly NOT restricted to being exac...

AlecK

Correct. What this doesn't allow is - for example - a 10 A rating, even for very low-power units. Or a 16 A "3123" type (no idea why not). Interestingly, under 1976 Regs, a 10 A plug could be used (under certain conditions, as per the official newsletter dated Aug 1992); and any built that way can r...

AlecK

yes, I missed that you have the N disconnected for the ECC test. Which is the equivalent of having it connected, but MEN open. In that case, yes the ECC testing shows PECs correctly connected at all points along circuit (as well as confirming the PEC part of the EFLI (which for many circuits is enou...

AlecK

Yes there is some logic to treating "correct circuit connections" as being part of "polarity". But there are aspects of ccc that have nothing whatever to do with polarity. So the change (in A1 to 2018, not in original 2018) makes some aspects more logical; but risks causing other confusions. As Doug...

AlecK

Not really relating to electric vehicles... Using d.c from PV to heat water is not new; but there are several fish-hooks. The load is just a resistance (around 18 ohms), so the variable voltage from unregulated PV will simply result in varying current / power. So as long as the resistance is selecte...

AlecK

A PL (or other authorisation) is required , by the Act, for PEW (unless an Exemption applies). Also required, by ESRs, for some non-PEW; like issuing WoEF and some types of periodic assessment. PEW as defined in Schedule 1 basically includes installation, connection, or maintenance of fittings / con...

AlecK

That makes sense, and is permitted under ESR 74E as alternative to the default of providing to the person to contracted for the work. Literally, this option is only available if the person to contracted for the work is not "readily available"; so if you can identify who asked for the work to be done...

AlecK

Not the first time Worksafe have preferred to use HSW law rather than electrical law. And won't be the last. Quite simply, it's far easier for them to get a conviction that way; because the burden of proof is reversed. There's no such principle as innocent until proven guilty. In stead you're presum...

AlecK

The type of supply system is about what form of earthing is used. It's generally "MEN"; because that's what's normally used for both distribution and installations in NZ. MEN is the particular variant of TN-C-S used in NZ (and Oz). TN for "terra neutral"; ie the neutral is earthed; and -C-S designat...

AlecK

The wording of ESR 72A requires a copy of the RoI to be provided (not "given") to " the person who contracted for the prescribed electrical work". ESR 74E uses similar wording: "the person who contracted for the work" for a copy of CoC. And ESR 74G reverts to " the person who contracted for the pres...

AlecK

Short answer is "No". That's because there authorisations to do various kinds of PEW are specified in the 'limits of work' set by EWRB for each class of PL. And none of them authorise "assessment" of anything. If you look at the history; ESR 75 used to sat "inspect"; which was changed in 2013 to "as...

AlecK

Working Days will have been a deliberate choice; allows for not only weekends but also public holidays.
I suspect they fixed on 20 WD as a standard length of time, being essentially 4 weeks in normal circumstances (a "working month?).

AlecK

Yes; CoC must be issued before connection? Issuing of the CoC completes the work; which starts the 20 WD timer. Yes; technically an offence to connect first and issue CoC after. And as you say, this is what happens most of the time. ---------- The legal driver for issuing CoC is that the work must n...

AlecK

There is no conflict. The relevant definitions are in the Act. "Installations" that have a "point of supply" (PoS) start at the PoS; which is generally where conductors that are supplied from a network cross the property boundary. "Lines" are part of "works" so are external to the PoS. For aerial su...

AlecK

Agree. Overcurrent protection is primarily about the cable. We select cable to carry the expected current; and then protect it so it can't be made to carry loads in excess of the as-installed CCC. Only in a dew special cases is overcurrent protection required for other fittings in the circuit; eg in...

AlecK

That's a valid answer; just not to any question that was asked in this thread.

AlecK

I presume you're asking only WRT land-based CIs; complying with "3001". clause 3.2.2 specifies the permitted types of appliance inlet, but does not set a minimum rating for this fitting. However 5.1.2 specifies the permitted types of fittings that can make up the supply lead, including the connector...

AlecK

You'll need to check that the fuse (or mcb) will operate within 5 sec with only 40 A available (compared to the typical 1kA we can expect with a grid supply). Not sure how easy it will be to get detailed info on operating curves for fuses. Personally I'd just use an RCD. For a 30 mA RCD; tripping wi...

AlecK

The alternative is to rely on 7.3.5.2.1; and ensure the conductors of the non-RCD circuits have a CCC at least as high as the inverter peak output.
That's peak output, not rated output.

AlecK

Using B-curve mcbs instead of C-curve lakes a difference only of the supply source us capable of providing the high current necessary for an over-current device. Yes Tables 8.1 & 8.2 allow for a higher impedance ; but they are based on a normal (ie grid) source. They are not relevant for low-capacit...

AlecK

No, that's not what the Note means at all. Table 6.1 sets out the rules for various types of equipment in each Zone; although the actual requirements are on the respective clauses. Step 1: establish the Zones for the particular case. While the Figs help; always check by reading the relevant clause; ...

AlecK

In normal grid-supplied circuits we typically use one over-current device to perform 3 different functions. First is overload protection of the conductors, , quite straightforward. Next is short circuit protection, again to protect conductors. Time requirements as per 2.5.4.5 When using a genset or ...

AlecK

the fact that a wall limits the Zone means that if the (whatever) is inside the wall, that limits the Zone, then it's not in the Zone. But an extract fan won't be installed inside the wall, it is mounted - at least partially - on the wall, and that part of it is in the zone. Z 1 for a water outlet o...

AlecK

There's an Exception, bit basically today's caravans/ motorhomes use ELV d.c. or lightoing, and LV circuits are generally sockets / appliances

AlecK

A "connectable installation" is, always, supplied from a point in an "electrical installation" - generally a socket outlet. The volt drop limits of "3000" apply to the socket outlet the CI plugs into (and "3001" provides guidance for estimating max demand within a caravan park). No allowance / corre...

AlecK

Short answer is that responsibilty for safety of all fittings installed rests with whoever installs it (actually who certifies its installation) There are 2 pathways to compliance for a switchboard. One is manufacture, as you say this would normally be to a relevant Standard; and the result is an en...

AlecK

Agree that neither cable can be considered to be double insulated; due to sheath of each being removed to expose basic insulation. However 3.9.8.3 applies to "wiring systems" and not within equipment enclosures. The clause I mentioned earlier is 4.4.1.1.3 of 2018 edition; which states: "A low voltag...

AlecK

Agree it could have been better; and not just on this point. 2008 was the first edition to even consider in-board supplies; now they are common and sometimes more than one on-board source. New edition will be published shortly and provides more guidance. Including for where not everything is to be s...

AlecK

I included some references to installation requirements because while we can't enforce them via the WoEF process, they can assist our understanding of the WoEF requirements. Yes, the installation requirement for all final subcircuits to have RCD protection applies at all times. The FS can't have RCD...

AlecK

Correct that this arrangement does not comply with C 7.8. It also doesn't comply with 3.4.4.3, so could not have been validly certified when new (if built since 1/4/2010) That clause lists several other requirements; including voltage rating, and that it must provide "isolation' between load circuit...

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