electricalforum.nz

DougP

And how does this comply for conductors in parallel if they are under 4mm²? As I've said previously, I don't believe that the 4mm² rule applies for conductors within the same multi core. Because of the wording in the clause: "parallel multi-core cables or groups of single-core cables " doesn't inclu...

DougP

Why are you planning on using such long tails? And from your last comment, are you planning on doing the join underground? Using such long tails, you are going to complicate the voltage drop calculation. Not having the joint accessible, could cause some confusion for others unless the cable run is d...

DougP

As I said above, and Alec explained with string theory, the door or barriers limit the zone.
There's a new diagram in 3000:2018 to illustrate this.

DougP

Read the 4th paragraph of 6.2.1

"Barriers, such as screens, doors, curtains and fixed partitions, that provide effective protection against spraying water may be used to limit the extent of a classified zone."

DougP

And you get bonus points for calling it a switch, and not an isolator!

DougP

Oven - no.
Cooktop with electric elements - yes.

DougP

Joints are fine as long as they are done correctly. I prefer crimp links, but soldering is also acceptable. 3.7.1.11 As Jamie said, the wording is "run in as direct a manner as possible" and the earliest I can find that wording is 2000. But that doesn't prohibit joins of course. There doesn't seem t...

DougP

Yes I agree that the normal enclosure and protection should apply. And yes the note is just advising some examples of wiring systems that aren't underground. So as there's no other requirement that directly states that a wiring system external to a building must be underground, or cannot be embedded...

DougP

3.9.4.2 does apply in floors as well, so it should apply in concrete regardless of indoors or outdoors, although not specifically written for outdoor with the use of the word "floor" only. Which sort of goes along with my question, that wiring systems in outdoor locations and within a concrete slab,...

DougP

I know I've probably asked this before.. but I would be interested in some more opinions. 3.11.2 classification of wiring system. After the clause. NOTE: Underground wiring systems do not include those that are— (i) embedded in a concrete floor, slab or pad; or (ii) laid on the surface of the ground...

DougP

Like this maybe? <head> <title>New Zealand's Electrical Forum</title> <meta name="Description" content="A forum where New Zealand's Electrical professionals can discuss anything in the industry to get good sound advice on how to solve electrical problems, help with Electrical legislation and standar...

DougP

Thanks Alec. The configuration did't seem to be a surprise to the inspector. One change we did make was removing the control of the water heating from the second installation, as it was switched using a channel in the ripple of the first installation. That seemed to be just too confusing for anyone ...

DougP

Someone will probably come back with precise information about the dates the rules came into effect...

But basically it wasn't disallowed in NZS3000:1997, but it was specifically disallowed in AS/NZS3000:2000

(unless I'm reading the old tomes incorrectly)

DougP

Probably the only valid lesson we can take is that being right is no guarantee of going unpunished. Even being "let off" amounts to a significant punishment due to the stress & costs of defending yourself. How do we fix this? They use investigators who aren't qualified electrical workers, then the ...

DougP

What 3.9.8.2 prohibits is things like a 2C or 3C N/S being used to supply multiple installations, eg each installation on a different phase and all sharing the N . Can't even have separate cables sharing a duct. Funny you should mention that one specifically, as I've seen installations exactly like...

DougP

JonnoM Nov 14 2017 23:25 This topic has been covered a few times but I still couldn\'t get a definitive answer. Sorry for the novel but there is no simple way to explain all this. I am a 3rd year apprentice and work for my father who I have also confused on this matter. My confusion is around the re...

DougP

I'm not sure what you're asking? You've circled the part that says that a switching device must be able to be locked. That paragraph is part of 2.3.2.2.1 A circuit breaker is a switching device and a device for isolation, but not all switching devices are. Some switching devices are just for functio...

DougP

There are GU10 LEDs. They weren't cheap last time I bought some. Probably 3/4 of the price of a whole integrated fitting. Considering that half the time it's the driver that's failed, a homeowner might go out and buy GU10 LEDs, replace them only to have them still not work, or be destroyed by a faul...

DougP

An electrician can do any of the testing required by 3019. There's a problem with some of the EWRB forms, that refer to an Inspector - but those are errors. (ESR 74 "person authorised to certify mains work" <- certify mains work, not "inspect" mains work) The error on the EWRB forms even seems to be...

DougP

That's a good point. Not sure if Greg has put any MetaTags in the page code...

DougP

I agree with Jamie and Pete. The basic principal applies to the existing part - that if it complied at the time it was installed, it doesn't have to comply with the current rules - unless your additions or alterations are making it no longer compliant or unsafe. There are various clauses in 3000 tha...

DougP

Yes.
The competency course and First Aid only needs to be current (within 2 years) at the _date that you apply_ for your license renewal.

DougP

@Jamie - the exception to 2.6.3.4 states that: "The requirements of Clauses 2.6.3.1 and 2.6.3.2 need not apply to the following:" so the "for the purpose of this clause.." in 2.6.3.1 means that the exception 3 in 2.6.3.4 applies to those points as well. So at the moment you can install a light fan u...

DougP

As you've posted from 5.6.2.2, they don't need bonding unless they are in contact with the ground. And, if the pipe is connected to an earthed hot water cylinder, then it doesn't require any additional bonding. 5.6.2.3 exception. So that applies to the length of copper pipe on the hot side of a cyli...

DougP

Maybe need to be more specific Jamie? Let's say it's a ceiling mounted heater. Permanently installed appliance. But plugged in to a socket outlet in the ceiling. No switching in the supply, just a remote control. Does this come under 4.9 which says that it only applies to "permanently connected" roo...

DougP

I was just reading your post Alec, and thinking I've never had to log in for a few weeks - I must have selected "remember me". And I went to look at the "logout" button, then I was logged out... Maybe I hit it by mistake.
Not sure if Greg has changed anything though?

DougP

I'll let someone else go into the technicalities ... But this has been corrected with amendment 1 of 3000:2018 AFAIK. But I've noted that some recessed lights marked as IC-4 are also coming with IC-F stickers to put over the label, so they comply with the 3000:2007A2 wording. So it must be backward ...

DougP

Once we get to using 3000:2018, the sign will not be required if the lights are IC or IC-4
Also under 3000:2007, the clause is varied by the ESRs, that it doesn't apply to non-domestic installations.

DougP

All of the readings you provided are too high for a 20m run of 2.5

You should do some low-ohm resistance tests to find out where the problem is.

DougP

Does anyone use the ESR 18A signage?

DougP

Maybe we should have one for "Employment offered and Work Wanted" or similar. Or both?

Maybe under "off topic" ? Although it's probably very much "on topic" now that people will be going back to work or not.

DougP

Lin13 Nov 26 2015 12:25 I have a situation where a new pool has been installed with the usual circulating pump and chlorinator system. The submain from the house switchboard is fed into a small sub board in the pool house via an RCD and then to a power point for the chlorinator. The circ. pump then ...

DougP

@electricians
How about providing some additional information about the circuit? What size cable is it? How long is the run? What is the circuit protective device? Mcb? RCD? Rating?
What type of circuit? Lighting? Socket outlets?

DougP

I just print out these and staple in place. I guess you could put it in a plastic sleeve, or laminate it if you're fancy.

DougP

Sounds reasonable. The quoting does make it somewhat ugly. Especially for general discussions.

DougP

I can see the button in some forums but not others. Not this one for example.
https://electricalforum.nz/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42

But a couple of others I can see it.

DougP

I can't see the tick icon? Is it just me?

DougP

The section titles: 3.9.4.2 Wiring systems near building surfaces. 3.9.4.3 Wiring systems under wall lining or roofing material Give a clue to the differences Then 3.9.4.3.1 has a better explanation, preempting 3.9.4.3.2 I think the key part of the wording is "through any space.." Like acoustic wall...

DougP

AngryClient wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:03 pm

ShaneR wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:22 pm
"Off topic" section I would assume is anything not electrical?
I assumed that was the DIY section?

Now we have the "thanks" button, we also need a LOL button

DougP

This is an interesting one that people often misinterpret. ----------------------------------- rarrar Sep 01 2015 14:24 what\'s the correct way to install a golair pull cord heater, does it require an isolating switch or not? pluto Sep 01 2015 14:42 The heater pull switch is only classified as a "co...

DougP

Tiger wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:20 pm
I tried and it works! Thank you, Doug!

Great, thanks for letting me know.

DougP

I'm not an expert, but I think it needs to be suitable to be usable mainly at these sizes to be used on multiple platforms.
16x16, 32x32, 48x48

Some information here
https://www.favicon-generator.org/

DougP

Once you provided the actual arrangement, it is simple for any electrician to tell you the answer. The first switch in the metering enclosure is not the main switch for the installation. It is a metering isolator, or main isolator - or whatever the locals wherever you live want to call it. It should...

DougP

"for the line side feed to RCDs or RCBOs, the clause doesn't apply." I don't think that's true. I can see nothing that exempts these connections from being required to be identified. I think it might be a matter of the writers not using consistent wording in various clauses? (Working from 2007A2 cl...

DougP

AlecK wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:29 pm
Balderdash.
Wiring rules clearly allow for a reduction in CCC without an additional protective device in these circumstances.
Each branch is a foxed load, so need only be sized for that load.

There's a few new features on this forum Alec.
Let's call this one the "foxed" feature

DougP

AngryClient wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:03 pm
90x90 I can deal with.
6kB only. Well.

Yours looked like about 1kb

I'll be able to upgrade mine now though thanks

DougP

Neutral bars usually have numbers on them. You would have to mark the circuit protective device with the associated neutral number. For 3 terminal RCD neutral bars, some type identifying number mark on the RCD and the associated neutral bar. I'm sure you'll be able to think of a compliant way to do ...

DougP

You have already shown the clause about an RCD as a main switch above.

There is some information about AFDDs in 3000:2018 appendix O

Otherwise, possibly manufacturers information?

I'm pretty sure that the way they operate, won't provide protection if they were used as a main switch.

DougP

Yes the RCD closer to the load will provide the personal protection, but for things like mains and submains, anything other than a 30mA RCD won't comply as a protection method for the cabling, so mechanical protection would still be required.

DougP

Off the top of my head, I think the delay is still within the time requirement for personal protection, but obviously the 100mA doesn't comply.

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