Certified Designs - ESR58

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JamieP
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Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by JamieP »

I've never really thought or looked much into certified designs until now as I was asked the question of what makes something a certified design, I always thought this was something to do with Electrical Engineers and part 1 solutions but having a read of ESR58 this doesn't seem the case

"A design for an installation or part installation is a certified design if—
(a) it identifies the location or proposed location of the installation or part
installation; and
(b) it identifies the standards (if any) with which the installation or proposed
installation, or part installation or proposed part installation, complies or
is intended to comply; and
(c) the person who prepared the design signs and dates it."

Am I correct in saying anyone can make a certified designed? And it doesn't actually need to be anything super complicated provided you meet the conditions above and of course ESR58 (2)

Is it really that simple?
AlecK
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by AlecK »

Yep; it's that simple.

If you look back at the earlier provisions, installers had to have a signed design cert (ESR 58, of original ESRs issued 2010, called it a "declaration of conformity") before starting work.
If it was issued by the installer, it provided no cover at all - a waste of time & paper to issue it, just because the rule said we had to.
But if it was issued by someone else; eg an engineer / consultant; it provided bum-cover.

In practice, all those people simply refused to issue one; basically saying : "if you want the chance to quote for work in future, stop asking for the declaration for this job". There was no legal requirement for them to issue, so they didn't
There was a legal requirement for the installer to hold the declaration - but commercial realoty meant they mostly didn't.
So the system simply didn't work in practice.

When they became aware of this; Energy safety deliberately changed the basis of the system;
so under current ESR 58 almost any document issued by a designer is automatically a certified design - which we as installers can rely on.

Which may, or may not, help when the specs say both "follow the plan" & "comply with 3000"; and it proves impossible to do both because the plan doesn't comply.
Again commercial reality may lead to the wrong person having to deal with design errors.
TPower
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by TPower »

1.9.4 of 3000 seems to set out the requirements for a part 1 design.

1.9.4.5 Only says the designer must be ‘competent’. So no specific qualification required. Although I wouldn’t say ‘competent’ necessarily means ‘anyone’.
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by AlecK »

That only limits who can prepare a certified design (CD) for a "Part 1 solution".
And the definition of "competent person" is open to a huge amount of interpretation anyway

CDs are required for work to Part 1; but other work can also have a CD
And there's no requirements for "competence" when it's not Part 1 .
Design work is not PEW; so under NZ law anyone can prepare a design for electrical work.
And as long as that documentation has the features listed in ESR 58; it is automatically a CD.

Pretty much every plan-&-specification meets the criteria for being a CD.
Including those lighting plans prepared by lighting suppliers on computer, that specify placement of downlights without any regard for whatever framing may be in place close to those locations.

And if we have such documentation; we are entitled to rely on it 'in good faith".
Which means we can't follow the plan blindly; but if following the plan leads to a breach of the Standard we get some protection.
As long as we "attach" the CD(s) to our CoC. Failing to do that means you accept full responsibility for any errors made by the designer.

The whole point of this ESR is to force electrical designers to take responsibility for safety& compliance of their designs
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by JamieP »

Thanks team, I was just always under the impression there was more too it but interesting to know
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by TPower »

My understanding was any CD must be in accordance with Part 1, as per ESR59(2)(b)?

Every other low or extra-low voltage installation or part installation must be installed, tested, inspected, or connected so as to comply with either—
(a) Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000; or
(b) a certified design prepared in accordance with Part 1 of AS/NZS 3000.

Remaining installations would fall under ESR59(1)-must comply with part 2?
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by gregmcc »

the way I read it:-
Part 1 must be to a CD
Part 2 can be to a CD but does not have to be.
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Re: Certified Designs - ESR58

Post by AlecK »

Yes a CD is always required for Part 1 work;
and yes there are additional requirements set within "3000" for info that must be included in Part 1 CDs.

CDs are also required for all HV work [ESR 62]

And yes a CD can be used for work intended to comply with Part 2 of 3000.

So if you are provided with any design documentation that :
- identifies location of installation;
- identifies the Standard(s) to be followed; and
- is signed & dated by the designer
you should treat it as being a CD and attach a copy to your CoC.

Note that a CD doesn't have to cover the entire job; it can be for just one aspect (a "part installation").
And that "signing" can be as simple as having the (design) business' name / logo on it.

Doing so covers the installer for a wide range of design errors including
- installing specified fittings that don't have appropriate IP rating
- installing fittings where indicated in plan, in a location that doesn't comply with the relevant standard
- installing specified cable types / sizes that turn out to create excessive volt drop and / or EFLI.

The bum-cover provided by CD is not absolute; we have to act in "good faith".
So if something appears obviously wrong before you do it; you should raise it as soon as you notice - and keep a record.
But if the design error isn't found until end of job, or if you raised it and were told to 'follow the specification;
fixing it can't be made your problem.
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