Hi,
Just wondering if anyone else is in the same Situation around the Country -
The Hamilton City Council Building inspectors are wanting a copy of the ESC for the Final Council Sign off on new builds.
They have required copies of the CoC for a while now, but in the last 6-8 months they are also wanting the ESC
The way it works in Hamilton is a Line Mechanic from WEL Networks comes the day before the Meter Installation and Terminates the Mains to the Pillar / Pole connection and leaves the fuse(s) in the Meter Enclosure. The Inspector will Inspect (If they are independent from the Meter Company), then the next day the Meter Installer will come and install meters and Liven Installation.
ESR 74A (1) says an ESC must be issued once work on an Installation / Part Installation / any fittings suppling an Installation is Complete.
ESR 74A (2) says work is only complete only once the installation is connected to a power supply
ESR 73A (5) says that connection refers to the prescribed electrical work that is the final step that will allow electricity to flow in the installation or part installation on which other prescribed electrical work has been done.
Which means the Meter Installer (being the person completing the work) is responsible for the ESC.
Despite all this, the Council wants the Electrician who wired the Installation to sign the ESC that accompanies the CoC for the Installation (Combined CoC / ESC). I've said that legally Electricians that wired the installation can't issue an ESC until power is connected, which is done by others.
What are others experiences on this? I guess to save a headache I can issue a CoC for the Mains Work to the Inspector and Living Contractor, then issue another Combined CoC/ESC for the General Work on the Installation? I feel the ECS from the Living Contractor still needs to be in the Paper trail submitted to the Installation owner along with all other certs.
ESC and Council Building Inspectors
Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
The Council is entitled to request a copy of the ESC(s).
For the scenario you describe, there should be two ESCs (at least);
one for connection of mains (upstream of meterbox) to network, and one for connection of mains downstream of meterbox.
What has been connected in each case is actually more complicated than that, but the point is that two connections that will allow electricity to flow have been made.
So yes the meter installer must issue an ESC for the connection at meterbox; but the line mechanic should have already issued one for the connection at pillar / pit / pole.
Incidentally; if the incoming mains at meterbox are not safely terminated (A& N) when the connection to network is made, then that connection is illegal. No different from connecting a subcircuit before the sockets have been fitted off.
The ESC is the primary safety document for new work. Whoever issues it is legally liable for the safety of whatever has been connected.
That person is required to sight (else issue) all necessary CoC(s) & RoI(s); and also to sight written records of test results.
This part of 73A is the only thing that ensures that PEW actually has been certified & inspected as required.
An ESC can only be issued by the person who made the connection.
So if the Council wants a copy, they have to ask the issuer, not the electrician.
They certainly should not expect anyone else to break the law by issuing one.
For the scenario you describe, there should be two ESCs (at least);
one for connection of mains (upstream of meterbox) to network, and one for connection of mains downstream of meterbox.
What has been connected in each case is actually more complicated than that, but the point is that two connections that will allow electricity to flow have been made.
So yes the meter installer must issue an ESC for the connection at meterbox; but the line mechanic should have already issued one for the connection at pillar / pit / pole.
Incidentally; if the incoming mains at meterbox are not safely terminated (A& N) when the connection to network is made, then that connection is illegal. No different from connecting a subcircuit before the sockets have been fitted off.
The ESC is the primary safety document for new work. Whoever issues it is legally liable for the safety of whatever has been connected.
That person is required to sight (else issue) all necessary CoC(s) & RoI(s); and also to sight written records of test results.
This part of 73A is the only thing that ensures that PEW actually has been certified & inspected as required.
An ESC can only be issued by the person who made the connection.
So if the Council wants a copy, they have to ask the issuer, not the electrician.
They certainly should not expect anyone else to break the law by issuing one.
Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
So this saga continues -
The Hamilton City Council have been told by the Meter Company (who are a nation wide company) that their ESC only covers the work they do inside the MeterBoard - nothing else (the Network company have ESC for their work on the supply fitting (ESR74A (1AA)(c))). Even though all connections have already been terminated within the House (DownStream from the Main Switch) before the Power going on. Hamilton City Council (after receiving advice the EWRB) are adamant that the Electrician who wired the House must provide an ESC for the House - they are also asking the Electrical contractor who installs the Under Ground Mains to provide an ESC with his CoC, even though they are not the ones connecting their work to power.
ESR 74A(2) says For the purposes of subclause (1), if an installation or part installation was disconnected from a power supply while the prescribed electrical work was done, the work is complete only once the installation or part installation is connected or reconnected to a power supply.
ESR 73A(5) says To avoid doubt, in this regulation connection refers to the prescribed electrical work that is the final step that will allow electricity to flow in the installation or part installation on which other prescribed electrical work has been done.
RoI and CoCs are sent to Network and Metering Company prior to connection.
In my view, If all work is terminated from the MainSwitch downstream to the rest of the Installation before the the final connection is done, which will be done by the Meter Hanger, weather the MeterHanger likes it or not, their ESC covers the whole installation. (Unless they disconnect the Load side of the Main Switch)
Am I wrong in my view? - Does the Electrician need to provide ESC once power is on? (obviously they do if they still have circuits to connect after power to installation is connected).
The Hamilton City Council have been told by the Meter Company (who are a nation wide company) that their ESC only covers the work they do inside the MeterBoard - nothing else (the Network company have ESC for their work on the supply fitting (ESR74A (1AA)(c))). Even though all connections have already been terminated within the House (DownStream from the Main Switch) before the Power going on. Hamilton City Council (after receiving advice the EWRB) are adamant that the Electrician who wired the House must provide an ESC for the House - they are also asking the Electrical contractor who installs the Under Ground Mains to provide an ESC with his CoC, even though they are not the ones connecting their work to power.
ESR 74A(2) says For the purposes of subclause (1), if an installation or part installation was disconnected from a power supply while the prescribed electrical work was done, the work is complete only once the installation or part installation is connected or reconnected to a power supply.
ESR 73A(5) says To avoid doubt, in this regulation connection refers to the prescribed electrical work that is the final step that will allow electricity to flow in the installation or part installation on which other prescribed electrical work has been done.
RoI and CoCs are sent to Network and Metering Company prior to connection.
In my view, If all work is terminated from the MainSwitch downstream to the rest of the Installation before the the final connection is done, which will be done by the Meter Hanger, weather the MeterHanger likes it or not, their ESC covers the whole installation. (Unless they disconnect the Load side of the Main Switch)
Am I wrong in my view? - Does the Electrician need to provide ESC once power is on? (obviously they do if they still have circuits to connect after power to installation is connected).
Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
You are not wrong.
and (surprise surprise!) EWRB is.
As is the meter provider.
It's not possible to limit an ESC; it automatically applies to everything that gets connected by the action of connecting.
If this is the company i think it is; they have a long history of trying to minimise their liability / responsibility by deliberately mis-interpreting the ESRs
and (surprise surprise!) EWRB is.
As is the meter provider.
It's not possible to limit an ESC; it automatically applies to everything that gets connected by the action of connecting.
If this is the company i think it is; they have a long history of trying to minimise their liability / responsibility by deliberately mis-interpreting the ESRs
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gregmcc
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Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
If the Electrician is sorting out the paperwork for the power retailer/metering they should eventually receive the ESC from the metering company via the retailer, quite often the construction company/builders take on this task. 1st question is, who arranged for the metering? then HCC should be directed to that person/company.
@AlecK - most likely is the company you are thinking of as they have a bad habit of rejecting meter installs for the most trivial of reasons (don't ask me how I know).....and rescheduling for an extra charge
@AlecK - most likely is the company you are thinking of as they have a bad habit of rejecting meter installs for the most trivial of reasons (don't ask me how I know).....and rescheduling for an extra charge
Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
Thanks again for the reply.
@gregmcc - An Inspection company I contract to organises the Network connections and Metering on behalf of the Electrician. I wasn't aware the retailers sent the ESCs through - But in these cases, because the Metering company have convinced the HCC that their ESC is only for the Metering Work, not the House, the Council are wanting the Electricians to submit an ESC. I advised the electricians not to sign the ESC (unless they have connections still to complete) which means projects are at a stale mate. I know its probably less fuss for Electrician to just sign an ESC once power is on, and be done with it, but at the same time, I feel someone needs to educate the Metering Company to what their responsibility's are in regards to the ESRs
So until this is sorted, we're at a stale mate until someone can get it through to the HCC and the Metering Company that their ESC is for the whole connected installation. It hasn't helped my case that the EWRB has sided with the Metering Companies views. Maybe the next step is to get a ruling sent through from Energy Safety / Worksafe, and fingers crossed they interpret the ESR correctly?
@gregmcc - An Inspection company I contract to organises the Network connections and Metering on behalf of the Electrician. I wasn't aware the retailers sent the ESCs through - But in these cases, because the Metering company have convinced the HCC that their ESC is only for the Metering Work, not the House, the Council are wanting the Electricians to submit an ESC. I advised the electricians not to sign the ESC (unless they have connections still to complete) which means projects are at a stale mate. I know its probably less fuss for Electrician to just sign an ESC once power is on, and be done with it, but at the same time, I feel someone needs to educate the Metering Company to what their responsibility's are in regards to the ESRs
So until this is sorted, we're at a stale mate until someone can get it through to the HCC and the Metering Company that their ESC is for the whole connected installation. It hasn't helped my case that the EWRB has sided with the Metering Companies views. Maybe the next step is to get a ruling sent through from Energy Safety / Worksafe, and fingers crossed they interpret the ESR correctly?
Re: ESC and Council Building Inspectors
1st 2 copies of any CoC, RoI, or ESC go to
a) the person whom asked for work to be done; and
b) the person who issued the cert (who has to keep a copy for 7 years).
A number of other 'entities' are entitled to request a copy; including the TLA.
They have to make their request to the issuer.
For a CoC or ESC ; they may have difficulty knowing who that was.
For an RoI; they can access the high risk work database to find out who issued it.
But no-one is entitled to request (demand) a copy of a certificate that does not exist because it has not actually been issued by anyone.
This assumes that the portion of mains upstream of metering point is already connected; and an earlier ESC should have been issued for that.
If that hasn't happened; then whoever connects to network issues an ESC for everything downstream of that point.
And yes, every time another part of the installation gets connected to supply, another ESC is required.
I strongly support the concept that electricians (or anyone else) hould NOT issue ESCs for connections done by someone else.
An ESC can only lawfully be issued by the person who actually made the connection.
(That's why , when issued by trainee, they have to be countersigned by the supervisor)
So issuing one for things that were actually connected to supply by the metering company's employee / contractor would be breaking the law.
So if asked to issue, should just point out that doing so would be an offence.
Refer ESR 74D.
The metering company cannot alter the fact that, by connecting their meters etc to supply;
they are also connecting a bunch of downstream stuff to supply.
As the 'person connecting', ESR 74A requires them to include all that downstream stuff on their CoC.
If they fail to do so; they are breaking the law .
If they specify that this downstream stuff isn't covered; they are issuing a false declaration.
The ONLY way they can lawfully limit their ESC to metering equipment only would be to physically disconnect the load side of the meters.
But at some stage that connection into load terminal(s) would need to be made, and that livens the outgoing mains (and everything else downstream), so ESC required (no-one else can make this connection).
Alternatively, they could physically disconnect both neutral and active(s) at MSB, and could then have an ESC for only metering + mains.
Except they don't have any authority to make such a disconnection; as they are only authorised to work on the metering. So they would be acting unlawfully touching anything else.
I would suggest that the only way this (or any other) metering company will ever be educated is by being taken to task.
Seems EWRB aren't going to uphold the law .
So logical next step is for someone to lodge a complaint that the ESCs being issued by the metering company are false.
Would need evidence of exactly what was connected in each instance.
Given the reported response from EWRB already; could well need to be appealed to District Court.
I know that's not an attractive prospect; but unless that happens nothing is likely to change.
a) the person whom asked for work to be done; and
b) the person who issued the cert (who has to keep a copy for 7 years).
A number of other 'entities' are entitled to request a copy; including the TLA.
They have to make their request to the issuer.
For a CoC or ESC ; they may have difficulty knowing who that was.
For an RoI; they can access the high risk work database to find out who issued it.
But no-one is entitled to request (demand) a copy of a certificate that does not exist because it has not actually been issued by anyone.
This assumes that the portion of mains upstream of metering point is already connected; and an earlier ESC should have been issued for that.
If that hasn't happened; then whoever connects to network issues an ESC for everything downstream of that point.
And yes, every time another part of the installation gets connected to supply, another ESC is required.
I strongly support the concept that electricians (or anyone else) hould NOT issue ESCs for connections done by someone else.
An ESC can only lawfully be issued by the person who actually made the connection.
(That's why , when issued by trainee, they have to be countersigned by the supervisor)
So issuing one for things that were actually connected to supply by the metering company's employee / contractor would be breaking the law.
So if asked to issue, should just point out that doing so would be an offence.
Refer ESR 74D.
The metering company cannot alter the fact that, by connecting their meters etc to supply;
they are also connecting a bunch of downstream stuff to supply.
As the 'person connecting', ESR 74A requires them to include all that downstream stuff on their CoC.
If they fail to do so; they are breaking the law .
If they specify that this downstream stuff isn't covered; they are issuing a false declaration.
The ONLY way they can lawfully limit their ESC to metering equipment only would be to physically disconnect the load side of the meters.
But at some stage that connection into load terminal(s) would need to be made, and that livens the outgoing mains (and everything else downstream), so ESC required (no-one else can make this connection).
Alternatively, they could physically disconnect both neutral and active(s) at MSB, and could then have an ESC for only metering + mains.
Except they don't have any authority to make such a disconnection; as they are only authorised to work on the metering. So they would be acting unlawfully touching anything else.
I would suggest that the only way this (or any other) metering company will ever be educated is by being taken to task.
Seems EWRB aren't going to uphold the law .
So logical next step is for someone to lodge a complaint that the ESCs being issued by the metering company are false.
Would need evidence of exactly what was connected in each instance.
Given the reported response from EWRB already; could well need to be appealed to District Court.
I know that's not an attractive prospect; but unless that happens nothing is likely to change.
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