Does a private network of a couple hundred dwellings still require inspections for the High Risk work, eg MEN, mains, earthing and electrode to each dwelling, I think so?
If this is High Risk work does it still require to be registered on the High Risk data base?
Thanks Peter
Private network
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gregmcc
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Re: Private network
Yes, I don't know of anything that exempts a private network
All high risk work needs to be logged on the high risk database private network or not
All high risk work needs to be logged on the high risk database private network or not
Re: Private network
Requirements for certification, inspection, etc apply to PEW carried out on any "electrical installation"
Same for the risk categories for PEW.
And same for connection of installations / part installations under ESR 73A.
The source of supply (if any) is not relevant to any of these aspects.
Q1 is the work electrical work? Y = must comply with ESRs & cited standards
Q2 is the work PEW? Y = authorisation req'd ( PL or equivalent, or exemption)
Q3 is the PEW done on an installation? Y = there is a risk category
Q4 is the PEW classified as low risk? no certification req'd
Q5 is the PEW classified as general PEw? Y = CoC req'd before connection to supply
Q6 is the PEW classified as high risk PEW? Y = inspection & RoI req'd before connection to supply
Q7 has anything been connected to supply as part of the PEW? Y = ESC req'd
NONE of this relates in any way to what kind of supply is used / intended to be used to supply the fittings worked on.
Same for the risk categories for PEW.
And same for connection of installations / part installations under ESR 73A.
The source of supply (if any) is not relevant to any of these aspects.
Q1 is the work electrical work? Y = must comply with ESRs & cited standards
Q2 is the work PEW? Y = authorisation req'd ( PL or equivalent, or exemption)
Q3 is the PEW done on an installation? Y = there is a risk category
Q4 is the PEW classified as low risk? no certification req'd
Q5 is the PEW classified as general PEw? Y = CoC req'd before connection to supply
Q6 is the PEW classified as high risk PEW? Y = inspection & RoI req'd before connection to supply
Q7 has anything been connected to supply as part of the PEW? Y = ESC req'd
NONE of this relates in any way to what kind of supply is used / intended to be used to supply the fittings worked on.
Re: Private network
There's one aspect where type of supply can seem to make a difference.
Definition of "electrical installation" in the Act is in 2 parts; based on whether or not there's a "point of supply" for the installation .
No PoS ( ie off-grid) means there are technically no "mains"; due to "mains" being defined as starting at the PoS.
However there will still be "mains work" because there is still a main earthing system.
Definition of "electrical installation" in the Act is in 2 parts; based on whether or not there's a "point of supply" for the installation .
No PoS ( ie off-grid) means there are technically no "mains"; due to "mains" being defined as starting at the PoS.
However there will still be "mains work" because there is still a main earthing system.
Re: Private network
So Alec, in ESR 4) mains work b)i)
"(b) does not include—
(i) work on fittings that are used or intended for use by any person in,
or in connection with, the generation of electricity for that person’s
use and not for supply to any other person; or"
What does this mean? If Off grid the earthing system is not High Risk?
"(b) does not include—
(i) work on fittings that are used or intended for use by any person in,
or in connection with, the generation of electricity for that person’s
use and not for supply to any other person; or"
What does this mean? If Off grid the earthing system is not High Risk?
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gregmcc
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Re: Private network
This wouldn't come in to play in this instance as you said it was going to serve a private network of several hundred dwellings, part ob (b) (i)."..... and not for supply to any other person" which is for one dwelling only
Re: Private network
Hi Greg, yeah I was going off track, I was referring to Alec last post about earthing systems Off grid, any thoughts?
Re: Private network
That Exception in ESR4's definition of "mains work" is relevant; but not what i was getting at.
It covers eg the feed-in from any private genset / inverter to an installation; both grid-connected and off-grid.
It does mean that alt supply feed-ins are not "mains work".
But they couldn't be mains work anyway; because there's a higher-level rule in play.
The fittings concerned are not "mains"; nor are they work on anything else that is listed as being "mains work".
What matters for off-grid is the definition of "mains"; in which "mains" is the fittings (not just conductors, but other fittings as well) that supply the MEN swbd closest to PoS.
With an off-grid installation; there is no PoS; and from that it follows that there are no "mains".
However the definition of 'mains work" is wider than just work on "mains"; it also includes work on a "main earthing system".
Off-grid installations have a "main earthing system"; if only because ESR 60 says they have to comply with "4509.1" (assuming they are Part 2).
(If Part 1, we're in certified design territory)
So even though there are no "mains"; there is still "mains work" (on the MES) that then is required to be inspected.
This bunch of definitions means that at first glance the fact of having an off-grid source of supply is what makes the difference to the risk category. But its not that simple; and the fact of being an off-grid supply source doesn't prevent there being (high risk) "mains work" involved.
Just no "mains work" on " mains".
It covers eg the feed-in from any private genset / inverter to an installation; both grid-connected and off-grid.
It does mean that alt supply feed-ins are not "mains work".
But they couldn't be mains work anyway; because there's a higher-level rule in play.
The fittings concerned are not "mains"; nor are they work on anything else that is listed as being "mains work".
What matters for off-grid is the definition of "mains"; in which "mains" is the fittings (not just conductors, but other fittings as well) that supply the MEN swbd closest to PoS.
With an off-grid installation; there is no PoS; and from that it follows that there are no "mains".
However the definition of 'mains work" is wider than just work on "mains"; it also includes work on a "main earthing system".
Off-grid installations have a "main earthing system"; if only because ESR 60 says they have to comply with "4509.1" (assuming they are Part 2).
(If Part 1, we're in certified design territory)
So even though there are no "mains"; there is still "mains work" (on the MES) that then is required to be inspected.
This bunch of definitions means that at first glance the fact of having an off-grid source of supply is what makes the difference to the risk category. But its not that simple; and the fact of being an off-grid supply source doesn't prevent there being (high risk) "mains work" involved.
Just no "mains work" on " mains".
Re: Private network
Thank you for clarifying Alec, the reason I asked was I have heard of Off grid earthing been interpreted as not requiring an inspection and this came from a person who does training.
Re: Private network
There a - somewhat unkind - saying:
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach".
The "truth" in it is that not everyone who offers training actually knows their stuff as thoroughly as they should.
Which is why we always need to ask "where does it say that" rather than just accept "the Gospel according to X".
In this case; the definition of 'electrical installation' in the Act was changed in 2010.
Prior to that, an off-grid set-up didn't have a PoS, so it wasn't an "installation"; so no inspection at all regardless of what was installed .
The change brought off-grids into the system.
In the old days, going off-grid wasn't just a simple choice.
You had to get approval from the local network.
And they had to provide a supply unless is was ridiculously expensive.
With de-regulation 1993; they stopped being "Electrical Supply Authorities".
They can't prevent anyone from going off-grid that wants to.
On the other hand they can refuse to build - or maintain - a line up the valley - or if they do, they can charge the user at the end the full cost.
Lots more off-grids means they needed to be brought into the same rules (nearly) as any other installation
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach".
The "truth" in it is that not everyone who offers training actually knows their stuff as thoroughly as they should.
Which is why we always need to ask "where does it say that" rather than just accept "the Gospel according to X".
In this case; the definition of 'electrical installation' in the Act was changed in 2010.
Prior to that, an off-grid set-up didn't have a PoS, so it wasn't an "installation"; so no inspection at all regardless of what was installed .
The change brought off-grids into the system.
In the old days, going off-grid wasn't just a simple choice.
You had to get approval from the local network.
And they had to provide a supply unless is was ridiculously expensive.
With de-regulation 1993; they stopped being "Electrical Supply Authorities".
They can't prevent anyone from going off-grid that wants to.
On the other hand they can refuse to build - or maintain - a line up the valley - or if they do, they can charge the user at the end the full cost.
Lots more off-grids means they needed to be brought into the same rules (nearly) as any other installation
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